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Matt said in January 29th, 2007 at 2:03 am

Hey,

I think I understand where you’re coming from with comparing the Trinity to the family unit generally. But, I fail to see in your explaination how the Holy Spirit is like a mother.

I agree in the general idea of a family’s unity giving us a picture God’s Triunity but I would like to see a further expounding on this as I’m always trying to better understand the Trinity.

Also, I often have a hard time with saying that Christ is no longer considered a physical man. I go back and forth on this, but it would seem that the reconciliation of body and Spirit happened in Christ. Consider how the disciples were able to touch Christ’s glorified body. A glorified body but a body nevertheless. And, upon Christ’s return aren’t we expecting Him to return on the clouds in the same way He was taken up, in a glorified body? Does Christ exist now without that body but will ”put it back on” upon His second coming? However, I’m not sure how to take verses like 1 Corinthians 15:45: ”The first Adam became a living being and the last Adam (Christ) became a life-giving spirit” so it remains a mystery for me.

Thanks,

-Matt

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D.S. Martin said in January 29th, 2007 at 12:04 pm

I appreciate the comments.
I am not yet finished with the exposition. And, perhaps I will be able to address some of this with the concluding portion of the essay.
But, I do readily concede your point, that the Holy Spirit being represented by the mother/wife cannot be fully supported using the scriptural text alone.

But, on the other-hand, I am intrigued that you’re at least to a degree, opened to the argument, “I think I understand where you’re coming from with comparing the Trinity to the family unit generally.”

My question to one who is opened to “comparing the Trinity to the family unit generally”, yet only, if the Trinity were absent a mother and wife: How could a natural family “generally” represent this?

It is my opinion that mother and wife are necessity within a representative and functional “family.”

My two-part essay on Symbology discusses this to a lesser extent. In that essay I give many examples of God’s use of symbols. I was not all-inclusive, but we may see, just from the limited examples given in those postings, that God appears to use symbols in His dealings with humankind, much as a carpenter uses nails, screws, dowels, or biscuits in woodworking.

1. God’s use of the various symbols, work to conjoin a contiguous, but distinct group of individuals to a purpose/concept.
2. A carpenter uses the various joinery techniques to conjoin a contiguous, but distinct group of individual wood components to specific purpose/concept, e.g. house.
(Note that I will likely use much of this response in the continuation of the essay under discussion.)

With many symbolic ceremonies and icons given to the Hebrews, God tells His people explicitly, that the intended goal is to create teaching moments for all succeeding generations.

These lessons, which occur because of the questions about the symbol, will connect God’s people, to God, by the concept/thought that underlies the symbol. Exodus 12:26-27 is just one example. (Please file this concept/thought in your memory; it will be brought to bear again in a future essay.)

Nonetheless, it would be, in my opinion, irrational to say that ‘The “family unit” represents the Trinity, generally, however we must not consider the mother/wife as an integral and necessary part of the symbol.’

Either the claim “that the symbol exists” is wrong, which I concede is a valid possibility, or the symbol exists complete as is seen in the natural family unit.

To the point of, “the claim is wrong”, I might also add, that my very proposal ignores the position of “daughter” in a natural family.

(I will try to flesh out these thoughts in my continuation of the essay.)

The designed desire of man, to find and resolve mysteries, is something that I see being played out every day, e.g. mystery novels, movies, astronomy, biology, vanity license plates etc.

I believe that God placed this inquisitive nature in our heart, knowing that it would be necessary to draw humanity back from the adversary’s domain, while still allowing our freewill acceptance of the logical conclusion.

I will continue the thoughts later.
But, in the meantime, think about the function of the Holy Spirit that is stated by Jesus and His disciples in the New Testament. Do these works, reflect the function of mother and wife in a family? And if so, How?
Again, thanks Matt for the inquiry. I am glad to discuss my unique perspectives on God.

God bless,

DSM

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Anonymous said in February 6th, 2007 at 8:31 pm

hey ds just some thoughts:seems to me
Jesus can be what he wants to be such
as physical, Luke 24:39, or spiritual
(supernatural), John 20:19. And I think youare right on with the family
symbology. The Christian and Jewish
relationship with God and with the
church has always been masculine until the last forty years or so.(The
Bride of Christ,Christ being masculine the church being feminine
but ONLY in relationship to God etc.

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D.S. Martin said in February 6th, 2007 at 9:38 pm

Thanks for coming and commenting anonymous.
You are correct but one passage that you were very close to, but didn’t mention is John 20:17.

“Don’t cling to me,” Jesus said, “for I haven’t yet ascended to the Father. But go find my brothers and tell them that I am ascending to my Father and your Father, my God and your God.”

It is my opinion that something significant happens to Jesus at His ascension, which is not clear, but Paul speaks of the change, which will occur “in the twinkling of an eye.” This is from the passage in 1Corinthians 15 that I mentioned. When I read this passage and John 20:17, it is an issue that is not addressed clearly, by the Scriptures.

But, think about this too. His most intimate disciples are unable to recognize Him until He allows their recognition. Yes, He is physical but not the same, but He is also still not as He will be when ascended.

I will continue this thought later, because you are speaking about something that I want to elaborate on, in my next follow-up to the series.

God bless,
DSM

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bigdaddyok4316 said in February 18th, 2007 at 10:00 pm

I tried leaving a comment a week or so ago on this blog entry, it didn’t make it. I forgot the point i was trying to make at the time. Hope you are having a great day!

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bigdaddyok4316 said in February 19th, 2007 at 4:40 pm

ds CAN’T SEEM TO GET THROUGH

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bigdaddyok4316 said in February 25th, 2007 at 8:04 pm

Hey ds, I whole-heartedly agree with your idea of the family as being representive of the God-Head, with the Father’s role as

provider/leader/dominant/protector/life-giver etc.,etc., etc., ad infinitum, and the role of the Son as doing the Will of the

Patriarch/Father as Heir Apparent to the patriarchy, and the role of the Holy Spirit as Mother/Comforter/Teacher(John 14:26) as

well as a constant Presence like that of a mother (at least in those days).One should not be confused by the uses of gender,

however, because God is always considered masculine in relation to mankind of His dominance, as the male is dominant in his

household and even the mother is dominant/masculine over her children until at least the male child becomes of age (usually around

twelve or so) then his mother takes a more feminine role in relation to him. She is even considered masculine in relation to her

servants/slaves, whether male or female, because of her dominance over them, for obvious reasons that a feminine/passive/submissive

role to the staff would not work, but would invite trouble(

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